What everyone should know about good marketing localization

Andrew Hickson 00:06 Soren, have you joined the call here? Are you in this room with me? You have. There we go. I can see you. How are you Sauron? Soeren Eberhardt 00:17 I'm good. Rainy over here in Seattle. Awesome weather in the Netherlands. Andrew Hickson 00:22 It's also wet here in the Netherlands. But I mean, the stereotype for Seattle is that it's supposed to be raining, right? Soeren Eberhardt 00:28 Yes, I did. Yeah, we had such a dry summer it was getting dangerous for our reputation. Andrew Hickson 00:34 It almost look nice. Seattle's beautiful. And it's beautiful because of the rain like Ireland, where I'm from. Just before I hand over to Soren, if you have questions, please post them in the q&a part of the chat. If you see a question in there that you really like, and you think that one, that's one that I should have asked, please upvote it and then we'll focus on those questions when it comes to the q&a section at the end. Okay, sorry, best of luck. And I will talk to you in a while. Soeren Eberhardt 01:01 Thanks a lot for the intro, Andrew. Thanks, everybody for for being here. And as I could just see, like at the craziest times, so I won't even say good morning. Good afternoon, good evening, because there's some good early mornings in there. Let me share my screen and bring up a little presentation. And I don't know whether I'll pause also, we'll keep an eye on the chat in parallel saw, the title of my presentation is what everyone should know about good marketing localization. Of course, it would be interesting to see how many people of you are in marketing, we're gonna take Andrew Andrew is so I might not telling him a whole lot of new things. But for some of you, marketing, localization might be a new beast, for those of you who are in marketing localization part might be new. So I hope there's something in there for everybody. Well, Andrew already introduced me, I've been in the industry for 25. Five years. And as he mentioned, I'm also teaching localization. I've also taught at a few other other colleges. And I've been working at Microsoft for nearly 20 years now. And actually, my last big software project, as you saw, that is somebody from slack speaking. So when we brought out our competitor, not only of slack, but also assume Microsoft Teams, I was the one that responsible for the first release in 18 languages. So shortly after that, I moved to marketing localization. And they are still working on on teams, but on Microsoft Teams, pages, advertising, marketing, marketing teams, and then also on those pages aimed at small and medium businesses, in case you're wondering what that SMB is for. There's lots of different abbreviations in different different languages for that small and medium businesses. So I'm basically every company, any company that saw probably below like 300 employees, something in that in that area. So what I would cover Andrew Hickson 03:27 is, Soeren Eberhardt 03:29 basically, well, the whole range of, of things that you need to think about when you are in, in marketing, especially when you're in marketing, localization. So the question of how do you bring traffic to pages? What actually is the purpose of those individual pages, and then I will be talking about something called the funnel. No wonder how many of you have heard of the, the funnel should have brought one to demonstrate by the way, for the image of it. I will be covering metrics data insights, and to drive insights. There are some tools among them, as Andrew already mentioned, a B tests, some of the specific page elements that we need to pay a special special attention to in localization, although as somebody who works in in marketing even for for any small market, you might want to take some of those lessons with you, and then some of the marketization opportunities. So that's quite a bit. So I just have a marketing page for you here. Microsoft teams teams page, it might have actually changed since this screenshot was taken. I see that somebody's already asking what the funnel is, I will cover that. So this page does not just exist by itself, right. And it is one of by now, billions of web pages out there. So things don't start with that with page, although that was the homepage for teams, not one of the pages further down in a regular customers journey. So the very first thing that people in marketing need to think about is bringing traffic to pages. And so there's a whole art of search engine optimization. And I'm not a specialist, there are people who are really have deep expertise in that. And I know that there are some people who have deep expertise in international SEO, which is the abbreviation work we weren't I should mention is that there's good tactics and as kind of the evil tactics, the Blackhat ways of trying to get yourself up in the rankings. That's what what it's all about, right? You want to be found, your page should be found on when a user looks for a page. So this is the Microsoft Teams on Google. And so we want to make sure that when somebody looks for Microsoft Teams, they actually find Microsoft Teams, and not sorry, slack as the first one. And so there's a few things that need to be done. So there's a lot of meta information in each HTML page, there's title, tag, meta description, and so on. So those things need to be need to be done correctly. But it's also about keywords on the page. And so you want to have certain certain keywords that people are looking for, actually in the in the extra page tags, and I don't know how many of you have ever stumbled over these these weird pages that just try to draw traffic that would just repeat certain keywords over and over, and basically have a list of of keywords, that is Blackhat tactics, it just tried to lure you in. So it also obviously needs to make sense for the user. But that is a high art really is thinking about what keywords to use. There's also algorithms that just the algorithm basically checks for how well linked the page is so and Those links also need to be reputable. So they cannot come from from pages themselves rank really low, the higher they rank, the better for the backlinks. Increasingly, the Google algorithm has focused on some of the fundamentals like page load time, also responsive design for mobile, and so on. So there's quite a few things. As I said, I cannot really go into too much detail there. What I would like to point out is that people in the US, and probably in many other markets think about Google, first and foremost, when they think about SEO, so you might talk might be talking with website development teams that are merely focused on Google. But we know that China, for example, they have Baidu, they have different algorithms you might optimize, might need to optimize for them differently, Yandex in Russia. And then there's also the question of if if you have videos on YouTube, so there might be different media that you might want to think about as well. So that is the first step bringing that traffic to your to your page. One thing that I would like to point out in terms of keywords, if you do have so many companies, you would have some sort of standardized terminology, especially around your product, like, especially around software and support content, because you want to make it easy for people to understand what you're talking about. But the keywords that people look for on the web might not reflect that terminology. So that is definitely something that you need to need to balance. What is it that the market really uses? When talking about a product like yours? And what is it that you're using internally? So you definitely you think a lot more about sort of standardizing terminology for SEO, your basic need you think about variation and synonyms there. And that's something where I feel like we don't really have that many great approaches in terms of terminology management yet. And then there's obviously the differences between language variants that might in many cases not be not that important. But for SEO, those might impact search behavior by by markets or if you have English US versus UK, or the different versions of Spanish as shown here like Spanish Spain or Mexico. So they need something to keep in mind? So the next question is, what is that marketing page for? Actually, what are you trying to achieve on that, on that particular page? So, and this is where the funnel comes in. So Mario, now I'm hoping to answer your question. So basically, we know it's not the funnel to the left, it's the funnel to the right that that we'll be talking about. But it's kind of that that shape, you try to bring in a lot of visitors. First to just create that awareness of your product, your service, whatever your marketing on your page. So that is the very first step. They might not be searching, I showed that search for Microsoft Teams, they already know, right? Probably they will be searching for video conferencing, something like that. So first, creating that awareness that you are actually covering, covering that with your with your product or service, and then generating interest. So you will already have people drop off in that step. And then people will consider your product for a while they might consider it for signing up, if you have a freemium product, or if you're free product, they might consider it for purchase. So that really depends on how you offer something. And from that consideration stage, you want to get them to really convert, meaning that they will become a buyer or consumer of your product. So that is the funnel because you always lose people in those different steps. And when you look at explanations of the funnel, you will see the different stages, you will see lots of different ways that that funnel is that the different steps in the funnel are being described, they should reflect this, this overall one, but it will see different different variants of this, of the words of the of the different stages, and will really depend on also what is that conversion and the end? Where do you want to get get people to? So basically, on your page, you need to know what is it that you want your visitors to do at the very end. So this one, the one that I'm showing below is maybe they just need to learn more, so that they become more qualified visitors. So you basically take them from awareness to interest to consideration, that might be might be one thing, or you have so called calls to action CTAs. And that could be you have a button from which you can immediately buy the product, or you have a link to a form where you can contact the sales team, or you want people to download your app saw that CTA can look very, very differently. But you should have that call to action somewhere towards the end of your customer journey. And that could be not the very first page that somebody lands on, you might send them to another page, maybe they need, get some more information. But eventually, you will have some sort of action that should happen. So here's the an example. So when you looked at the page, in the very beginning, you probably did not necessarily notice the CTA such as your marketer yourself. So we have different things here we actually have signed in into into teams, we have to sign up for free. And then see plans and pricing is actually on getting people to more information. So that will be more on the information side. But you basically have these different actions that you want people to take. And in most cases, you see, Well, normally you would see these CTAs pretty high on the page, because there's something called the fold, which is above the fold is basically what people can see when they when they open a page. And when they when they don't have to scroll down. So everything below the fold definitely gets a lot less attention. But, of course, a lot of pages have that. So this is just an example for the information where you make people more qualified. So this is from that same page, much further down. We have an FAQ, and people would learn more about the product. They have specific, specific questions. So I was already talking about the customer journey. So you might have different difference sets of pages. You might have those pages that are mostly for getting traffic to your to your site, I should probably say so post pages where you can describe exactly what people are looking for. And then you might send them to another page. From there, you have those conversion pages, where it's very clear that you want people to take the action at the at the bottom of the of the funnel, that conversion step. And then you have info pages where it's more about getting more information before they get qualified. And you might also see a mix of these components on on each page it's already showed. But you would have, if you have pages that are more dedicated to one aspect or another, you need to see how do these pages fit into an overall flow. So as I said, you start with sending well trying to get traffic to your page, where does that traffic lands. And then somehow, you want to get them the conversion. So that funnel might be happening through different different pages, and you should know where each page fits into this overall flow. So for all these things, you obviously want to know how successful you are. So you want to measure what your visitors are actually doing. The nice thing is that web metrics have been around since basically, the web exists, and they're some very established ones. No harm. It's, um, it's pretty easy to slice them also, by by markets, if you have different locales for your different markets, pages, and so on, what you want to look at is a few key metrics. So first of all visits, how many people are really booting and nobody would want to look at unique visitors, you have bounces, which is the opposite of off engaged visitors are balanced is when somebody comes to your page and doesn't do anything, the problem is that that not doing anything could also mean they stay on your page and read everything. Um, so normally, there's also a time threshold for how fast they leave the page to define what makes a bounce and just not clicking anything is not efficient to define the bounce. And then you have engagement, how many people are clicking different elements on the page. Obviously, if you have several pages that go on, when lined up for a flow, you want to want to know how many people are clicking those individual links. And then eventually, you want to check for how many people actually purchasing or trying your product, how many are signing in if you have a service, how many people are signing up new downloads, and so on. And when you're looking at rates between these different steps, you of course want to know the absolute numbers. But you also want to know the relative the relative data, right? How many people that visit your page are actually buying. So there will be a purchase rate. So you have these these relative data as well coming along with the metrics. So we're looking at the funnel again. So let's say you really have you have a page where people just sign in home, let's say your Google Google Mail, so you want to make sure that people are actually signing in into your mail service. So this is basically how the funnel would look like right? Yeah, visits, you have people that are actually really engaging on that on that page. The sign in and while I'm in most cases, sign in intendant sign in should be the same home unless there's something broken between that step where somebody clicks the link, and then really signs it. You can also have like visits that eventually should be converted to purchases, where the purchase flow itself might be a little longer because people might need to give you their address, they might need to give you a while they will probably need to give you some way of paying. So maybe they enter a credit card number. So between buy intent and purchase, you might see drop offs. So you want to have all these individual steps shown and then see the relative relative numbers for that. So tons of data, and I just have a few examples here to the right, you see a heat map, not very granular. You can make it a lot more granular where you basically look at how many people are seeing elements on a page, how many people are clicking on the elements of a page. And there's quite a few of these tools around. And then yeah, I have something that is actually showing the visits to teams pages and I took that. Last Last year we saw obviously a big spike on thing that 2000 made data even complete but we also saw more more engagement. And as I said, engagement and rate home, basically, engagement rate and bounce mates, together 100% of the visits. So all these things you can use to analyze what is going on. In this case, it's interesting that despite the fact that there were more visitors, the bounce rate did not go up, which is very often the case, because you might have a lot more visitors that are just vaguely looking at it might not really engage with the page. So all these quantitative data are great, and they can show you anomalies. They can show you where you might want to improve, but they don't really explain why people are behaving that way, right? Why are people not engaging on your page, again, this beautiful page, and people will take a quick look at it and leaving it again, what's going wrong there. So you need customer insights. And you can do that. Lots of different ways. So you can have usability studies in depth. So you can actually bring people in, or you can do it remotely, have somebody just sitting in front of your page. And you just tell them, talk me through what you're seeing and other things that you don't understand. And you just play around with it or I mean, usability people who can give you all that guidance, obviously, because you need to bring people into a place where they can screenshare where you can observe them, well, that might require quite a bit of budget. You can have user interviews that are a little looser, there's also companies that provide pools of people that you can can interview can have crowdsource usability studies where you basically just have people do things at home, and they talk you through what they are seeing. So that whole screen sharing all that it's not done in a lab, for example, but there's software that is that is doing that. And then you can also do user surveys on your on your site, right, you can always ask people, but we all know, we've probably all seen so many surveys already that people get tired of that. So you need to, this is something that you need to be really careful about and not overuse. It should also know that people often respond to these surveys, not necessarily the way that you would expect them to. So people who are happy might not respond, but the people are mad, and they might not complain about the layout of the page or the ask them about it, but about your product. So even if you do it really targeted, we've seen that this user surveys, always to be read with a grain of salt. So and then one of the one of the greatest tools that you can use is a B tests. So um, I don't know how many of you have heard of that, um, it's been used, it has been used widely for webpages, people are using it in the software world as well. When you make one change, you should make one distinct change. Because if you're making lots of changes, you won't really know what is impacting your user behavior. So if you start with a hypothesis, if we make this change the specific change the metric x, let's say the purchase rate will be changed. And of course we want to change, change it favourably. Right. You can also guess by how many percent or how many percentage points that might impact be impacted. And so you basically just give a certain percentage of your users this variant, and you keep another percentage of users on that control. So basically, the the version that people have seen before, and then you'll see how two things, things change. And you can do a B tests, you can do ABC tests, you can test more than one variant. But if you test too many variants, you might never reach statistical significance for those metrics that you're measuring. And you can actually measure more than than one metric. In many cases, you might see a cascading effect, like the buy intent, so people wanting to buy then people will really get to the whole purchase process and it's a little more complicated. Those would be two metrics that could go go along. But they might not change. Exactly. Oh, in proportional fashion. So that's what a beat Testing is about. And that, the more the more you can can do all that, the more you will learn about, about your customers just need to quickly check on time, I think we still have a few more minutes, I want to leave some time for questions, obviously. So just looking at a marketing page, there's a few components that you might want to test and that you might want to change, you also might want to market it, change it by individual market. So there's a few things that are exactly especially interesting for for localization. So you have all the text elements, and you might want to think about transcription versus translation. And I won't go into that at all, but still, people are very reluctant to use machine translation for for marketing content, right, it's more more creative. So, the translation quality should be definitely the high and higher than in several other areas, talking about SEO considerations, and then what are your quality assurance mechanisms as always, when it comes to translation quality, right, you want to have something built into your processes? Do you have reviews? If you have subsidiaries, can they give you feedback? Do you have at least native speakers in market and so on? Then visual assets are really important in marketing content. I have the visual assets that on core marketing team is picking are those suitable across the world, I just picked this example. You see that the gentleman here has a while on the lower highlighted in red, he had a tattoo. That is something that for Japan is not well suited for for Japan. Normally, the market is really reluctant to see see people with tattoos. So we remove that tattoo. And you see the new version up there on top, just a small thing. But yeah, it's a it's a whole separate topic talking about the suitability of visual assets, you want to avoid religious symbols, you want to avoid too much skin, especially for Middle Eastern markets. Offensive hand gestures, and defensive can differ so much across across markets, right. So a lot of those things play a big role. And the people who are selecting visual assets in a central marketing team that are not involved in localization, they might just not be aware of the fact that something might not be suitable. And for a big market, like the US there might be a little more careful because they already have a diverse population, but especially starting in a small market. They might just make assumptions that images could be suitable worldwide, and they're not. And then videos are important elements increasingly. So you need to think about subtitling versus dubbing marketing marketing videos or translating. I mean, translated voice or voice over dubbing, obviously the most expensive one. So that also is a whole different conversation. I'm talking talking about that. But those conversations should happen early on between localization marketing, localization teams and their marketing teams. So the marketization itself, obviously text can offer a big area of possible marketization, you can just change the messaging. So instead of just going with a translation, and you might might want to advertise elements of your product differently across across markets. So it might highlight certain features in one market and not others, and so on. So there's a lot of things that you could do there. The overall terminology, the wording, lots of opportunities, where it's beyond just transcreation translation. That text could be modified. For images, you could use market specific images. I have an example here in my slide deck that I won't talk about, but this is an old version of the team's page. We had videos there early on about different organizations using teams. That was in the early phases of COVID. And we would, obviously since there were different videos available we would also show the different images from these from these videos per per market. And we've seen in several AB tests that actually, more market specific images can really make a difference. And then you can have always additional modules, you can have things that are not shown on on one page in one market that could be shown in another market arm, you will not be able to see that. And it's it's really small, but I don't want to spend too much time on that. But we have payment instruments on our we had a choosing module where you have different products and comparison that you see here on the upper image. And we show payment instruments for a few markets. In a market like the United States, people just assume that they can pay with credit card, which is also true. But there are other markets where there may be payment instruments beyond that, that people want to use. And so we advertise those payment instruments. Andrew Hickson 30:54 So ourselves Sorry, sorry, I just want to interrupt for one second. We're getting close to the end of the time for your presentation, there are a few questions which have come in and just with the detail on the slide, we can share your slides. If it's okay with you, we can share your slides all attendees can actually get them and see the detail in in these parts of the presentation. But if you want to take another minute, just to round out, I will try with rapid pace Soeren Eberhardt 31:19 shots. Yeah, I think I'm a little bit behind. So always measure the metrics after the implementation just like an AV test, so that you see that it's successful. And then I have this list of questions for marketers. So I will skip those, so that we can get to the questions because it's basically marketers should really think about what impact does their work have on localization? What are their kind of the International dimensions, what are their key markets, and so on LSPs should really think about should put on more of a marketing hat and for marketing, localization specialists on basically all those things that are highlighted, they can think about so here is the summary. I think I just leave this slide up instead of the question slide. So you see the the overview and we can get to the to the questions. Yeah, sorry for rushing to the very, very end. Andrew Hickson 32:14 No problem, sir. And that was fantastic. There was a huge amount of information in there and they know you're covering a massive part of the industry in such a short space of time, so you did a great job to get as far as you did with it. Okay, so we have a number of questions that have come in just for those of you who are, who are following this presentation. There is going to be a book awarded for the best prize and Soren has nominated the book he'll also get to decide which is the best question and the book for this q&a session is Nicolas ostlers empires of the word language history of the world. So the first question that came in the one which has reached the top of our list is from Anna Anna peecher. Io hope I haven't put your your name entire day on. She says hi Sauron, any book recommendation or general tips for an L lpm. New to the marketing localization world working in the client side for in technology. Soeren Eberhardt 33:18 Oh, I'm blanking on that one. I have to say, um, and since I moved to, Andrew Hickson 33:24 I was just gonna say we can come back to that if you want to think about specific answers for for book recommendations on the marketing localization. Also, if any of the questions here haven't been addressed fully we they will be addressed. We'll give a chance to get them addressed. And there'll be posted via smart cuts social media over the next week or two. So anything sorted doesn't get to right now, because I'm waffling we will cover. Okay, the next question. The one that first one came in from Mario Chavez in the USA, Soren, how do I convince management that we need visibility into user engagement, perform user studies etc. When there is no habit of giving that info company wide? Soeren Eberhardt 34:06 I'm not sure I understand the if there's no. What is the last part if there's the last question? Andrew Hickson 34:18 Yeah. When there's no habit of giving that info company wide? Soeren Eberhardt 34:23 Also, it's not regularly shared? Yeah, I'm just trying to wrap my head around. The question here, I think is actually one of the it would be one of the important assets of doing this kind of research to SHARE IT company wide. Because it's so important. I would say that it's always the question of how important the international markets are for the for the strategy. You the best starting point is always looking at the numbers how many of your users are outside of your, your source market, right if you're in the US how many People are not in the US and then go from there and try to try to just prove with your, with your numbers, how important it is to get more insights on in that in that area. Yeah. Andrew Hickson 35:17 I think that's fair. There is another question that from Mario, which is quite related. So I'm going to jump to that in just very quickly. Sorry, what is the resource cost of implementing rules just jumped to make what is the resource cost of implementing user studies and a B tests? And, again, tied into this first question, how do you justify to management the need for greater visibility into users of localized versions of websites? Soeren Eberhardt 35:42 I would say so, it's really hard to, to give you an estimate for those for those studies, because you can have so many different levels of how how much work you put in there. Um, I mean, you can you can hire third party vendors that charge quite a quite a bit and give you all the analysis and everything. Or you can even have like phone interviews with with people in those markets and do that, basically, all by yourself. Set up a zoom call with people right and and talk to a few stakeholders. The obviously the challenge, there will be the recruiting. But there's really such different levels, that it's really hard to put a price tag on there. But that might actually help with how you convince management because you can start small, and then you can get bigger, as I said, really important is that you will prove that it's important for the company. And you would best pick some of the bigger markets, start with those all get the insights there and then prove that you're making changes that actually benefit. Andrew Hickson 36:54 So I think the most important thing is to start. I have a question here from Luis Herrera, considering the nature of evergreen content, and top of the funnel content is translating, not transcribing or localizing the best way to go. And then he says according to his experience, both original and translated pieces had the exact same S E or P result. Soeren Eberhardt 37:27 So that sounds like people were looking for content in plain English. But I would really need to understand that concrete scenario. Yeah. Because it shouldn't be it should be a different behavior. I mean, you can can really, you can prove by my numbers that if you do SEO work of our English, English to Spanish. Yeah, I would be surprised if non translated content would give you the same probably really depends on the search behavior of people home. I mean, Microsoft Teams that term is that's not translated either, right? And people are obviously looking for it. But as soon as you as you want people to also be able to find your pages when you have videoconferencing in there, you should better translate it and have a translate on the pages. So um, yeah, that sounds like an interesting, interesting case that I'm would like to understand Andrew Hickson 38:27 better. Yeah, it would be good to know a bit more about that. If you could send us on a bit more information loose. We'll get it to Soren and we'll put you guys in contact. The next question next on the list is from your CV, your CV A, how do you measure impact of localization in conversion rates? That's a good question. Soeren Eberhardt 38:48 That is a big question. Yes. Um, I mean, technically, you can do an A B test for that as well. Right? You can have um, part of the part of the market go to an English page and parts go to a localized page. And you would, I would guess, hit you would definitely see and see an impact there. For if you mean that question more granular, kind of the localization quality. We've done a B test where we just really modified a little bit of the wording. So conversion might might be impacted by what you put on a button what that CTA says on whether you see say buy or buy now, in your translation, might make a big, make a big difference. And actually all that fine tuning of words, if you do that in the source language, and people are doing that as well, right? It's not that our US marketing teams would not experiment the whole time either. So that actually shows for me the importance of localization quality, that kind of all that wordsmithing that's going on in English. We need to have that equivalent, you know, and Yes, you can, you can prove it in tests. Andrew Hickson 40:02 Cool very much. So, I have a question here from Katherine Busman. Beyond Marketing translation, are there certain kinds of international marketing services for example, ie SEO, multilingual, AB testing, non English focus groups, cultural QA, etc, that LSPs could be offering or perhaps should be offering? Soeren Eberhardt 40:24 That's a that's a really great question. I think that LSPs could offer a lot in that area, a lot of expertise. And there is quite a bit of cultural expertise when our showing like that example with a with a tattoo, right? It is something that even a good localization pm if you cannot know everything about all the markets and companies or just going international, you might not have a whole lot of international presence. In Microsoft, we are lucky enough. We have subsidiaries, so many markets, I work with people in those subsidiaries very closely. But companies don't have that. They need the expertise. Especially if you're running expensive campaigns. You want to get those rights and I feel it LSPs could definitely get on offer offer services in all these areas that you mentioned. Yeah. Andrew Hickson 41:17 I agree with that wholeheartedly. Ilya Ileana has asked, Should marketing copies be localized by copywriters? Or are translators with great creativity? Enough with should they supervise? Um, Soeren Eberhardt 41:35 I think it can can be either. So it's really it really depends on how creative you want to have the contents of that really, so much depends on the on the content, how much creativity, right? How popular is that spectrum? And that's why I put transcreation slash translation in there. You can have those really creative translators that are nearly like copywriters. So you go with copywriters from from the bat. Andrew Hickson 42:01 Perfect. There was two. There's two more questions. One of them here is from Andrea asking if she could see the marketer slide again, all of these slides will be made available after the presentation, Andre, so we will get that to you. And then the final question, because we're running out of time is from Alex, Alex H. Leclerc. How do you consider the eight keywords keywords users are using? How do you conciliate keywords? The keywords? I'm trying to make sense of this question. I'm sorry, Alex. How do you consolidate the keywords users are using and correct terminology? How can we make usage of norm and normative language work together? So that it's like you'd mentioned that the difference between the terminology and how words are actually used in in day to day what what is somebody going to actually search for. Soeren Eberhardt 42:53 And that is, that is a dilemma that some companies are just facing our translators might just not be aware of the fact that they need to be milked, going for SEO. So you really need to make sure that people understand what context something is being translated in. And as I said, I haven't really seen a great solution for getting that together on kind of normative terminology that you want to use, for example, in software, and then when you have a page, a web page for that software that you then go more on for the SEO and use the keywords that users are using. Andrew Hickson 43:36 Perfect. Yeah. I think that is it in the questions that have come in. Soren, would you like? I'm Kate Vostokova 43:44 sorry, can you please share one more time this slide which dreads asking because she just want to make a print screen. Slide for questions for marketers. Oh, yes. Yeah, just for one sec. So yes, so she can make a print screen and then we can wrap up? Yep. Thanks. Andrew Hickson 44:04 Perfect. Okay, Soren, would you like to nominate or announce the winner of the best question? Soeren Eberhardt 44:15 OD or the q&a? Can I actually see that? Oh, yeah, I should Andrew Hickson 44:22 believe and then there's also questions which have been answered. So there's a number of the questions in there the ones the first few from Mario, Anna Lewis and Catherine are in there and then there's four still in the open which have all been asked as well if you'd like I can read back the questions to you very good. Soeren Eberhardt 44:47 I'll I just need to quickly take a look here. They were all really good questions. So in this case, I will actually give you I would like to give a shout out to Mario because he asked two questions. And I hope that we answered them answered them well, and this is not not a marketing book. It is. But it's it's fascinating because it's talking about language and of how how language is gaining importance in, in history Andrew Hickson 45:24 in the world. Yeah, it's a fascinating book. I've read it before. It's a great, great book. Mario Chavez. Congratulations. Sauron. Thank you very much for your time. And for the presentation. It was it was fantastic to to get a bit more on that side on the marketing side within our industry, because I think there's a huge overlap. But yes, thank you for your time, and we hope to hear from you again at some stage